Episode – 19

M&A Expert Talks Reg A+ & Covid-19 Buying Opportunities

Description

Laurent Ronald Gray is Chairman and Managing Partner of Versailles St. Germain. He attended the University of Michigan and is a banker with over 30 years of experience. He started at Solomon Brothers and later started a series of Investment banking boutiques. He is well versed in Mergers and Acquisitions (M&A), Investment Banking, Real Estate Sector, Company Valuation, Exit Strategies, Structuring Deals, and more.


In this interview, Laurent covers numerous topics in the deal flow process. He tells an interesting story of how he broke into the investment banking business. He talks about putting a valuation on a company. He shares his criteria for doing a deal as well as the red flags he looks to avoid. He gives his perspective on Reg A+. He talks about the effect of Covid-19 and identifies buying opportunities made possible by the pandemic. He discusses the disadvantages of going public.


What You Will Learn
- Disadvantages of Going Public
- Laurent’s Unique take on Reg A +
- Buying Opportunities due to the Pandemic
- Putting a Valuation on Your Company 
- Laurent’s Deal Breakers- and much more


Connect with Laurent
LinkedIn

Full Transcript

JP Maroney:

Well, greetings and welcome to another episode of the deal flow show. I'm JP Maroney, your host, along with my cohost, mr. Paul Nicoline here at Harbor city capital. Today, we have Laura Gray on the line with us and, uh, whether you're listening to this and audio or seeing it in video format, and Lauren is chairman and managing partner of Versailles st. Is a Jermaine. Correct. What I'd like to do is get into some of your background. You know, we'll talk about your own personal experiences in the capital market, what you brought you here today. And then I'd like to also dive into some of the questions that we'll be using the responses to put together a book called dealmakers deal-breakers. So we'd be talking about negotiation, the deal flow process, keeping your pipeline full, things like that as well. But why don't you take us back a little bit and talk to us about how you first got started in the capital markets and those early days,

Laurent Ronald Gray:

I actually became a banker by accident. We had a family business about 27 automobile dealerships across the country that my dad and his brother built a rolls Royce, Bentley, Mercedes, you name it, they owned it. Um, certain partnerships, um, some, some were company owned and just relationship. That was just a very exciting time in the automobile business. Um, in 1979 and my dad became ill and decided that it was about time to exit. I was a very young guy, did not have the capabilities to, you know, buy, buy the company away. Um, I had no clue how to access money. I was very, very young. Um, I did, I did help him as it turns out, you know, um, liquidate the relationships as well as the dealerships, as well as the real estate finally. But he basically said you need to fend for itself, you know, go and try to find something.

You want to have a passion with. Well, one of my childhood friends, best friends at the time worked at Solomon brothers and he said, why don't you come work here? And I go, I don't even know what do you do? I have no idea what you even do. He said, I'm an investment banker. Okay. Okay, good. I still don't know what that means. And he said, just come in for an interview. And I did, and it turns out that they were looking for some very, very senior anyway, fast forward. Um, I had left by my dad made a distribution. I decided to travel for a year, but I wanted this position so badly. I made it my, I made it my business, no matter where I was in the free world at seven in the morning, New York time, I was going, I was going to call the gentleman that I interviewed with.

It's just same as Tony. I'm not going to give you his last thing. And I will call him and say, Hey, good morning, Tony. This is Lauren calling you from aware of it. So fast forward, uh, I was, I happened to be in London and I was on my way home, call them on a Friday. And this is about 10 months out of traveling. I call them same thing. So when can you start? And I said, you're kidding me. He goes, I've never met a guy. So persistent in my life. You've got, gotta be, you've got to come here. I said, I'm leaving today. And I flew home. I started on that Monday and I stayed there about three years. That was my introduction. I wait, I actually worked for the same mortgage backed securities. John Goodfriend, John Barry weather, uh, Straus, Steve BOM, legendary. Um, after that, Michael Lewis wrote a book about that whole episode on, on the trading floor of som and I had been gone when he came in, but everything he wrote about was about half the truth of the things that went on there.

It was just crazy. I then decided to, I then decided to start my own business. And I said, I love this business. I really don't know what I'm doing, but I'm smart. I'm going to figure it out. And I did. And I, um, I incorporated a name and started going to the people that I knew met through my family, business attorneys, accountants, other investment bankers by that time. And I knew, I knew a lot of people down on the street. And when you start off, you really start out on the outer ring of everything. No one will tell you that, but if you're not connected with a Goldman, you're not connected with anybody. Right. And there's everybody in the vertical in between. And I just started getting a lot of very difficult deals and making and creating a great reputation of the guy who got deals done.

People would be taking bets that I couldn't get it done. And it was like one after another one after another. And then by chance, you know, fast forward from that experience, I got introduced to a, a very interesting deal called the Vermont Teddy bear and brought it into one of the broker dealers that I knew got that done. And then my neighbor, um, happened to have own Spanish forecasting systems, the Spanish radio, and probably was reluctant to share the infrastructure as to what was going on. But over flipping burgers at a pool party, he started to tell me about what was happening with the company. And, um, fast forward a year later, I closed, um, not only the Vermont Teddy bear deal. And then a month later, we closed on $110 million of a series, a, um, to basically get them. They were upside down to get them in a, in a more favorable position, wound up doing five acquisitions for them.

And then, uh, took them public at Lehman brothers. I did not do the offering, but because of the warrants. So I had achieved in the deal. I was able to exercise the Laurence. And from that, uh, he and I were on the cover of Spanish for our casting. And then, you know, basically I always equated to, you know, when you're an actor and you're struggling and you're work in a restaurant and you get a part, and then all of a sudden that part, you get nominated for an Academy award. That's how I felt. I went from really nothing to something. And from 1985 to 1994, it took that long in the process to really kind of hit my stride. And I haven't looked back since

JP Maroney:

A nine year overnight success. Right.

Laurent Ronald Gray:

Pretty much. Yeah, pretty much. Yeah.

JP Maroney:

That's a, that's that's interesting. Early on. I mean, obviously it was tenacity. Got you. That first job you were talking about persistence, persistence and tenacity, just bulldog tenacity. But once you got into the game, those, those first three years that you were there, um, what were some of the things that you learned, some of like being a babe in the woods, right. And just seeing a whole new industry from now the end side, in terms of the deal making process, you were there, obviously when there were some of the extraordinary historic dealmakers were doing some of their early projects, um, that, that went on to become famous,

Laurent Ronald Gray:

The mortgage back securities that sell them, I think represented 67% of the revenue. The years that I was there, it was the, the department that everybody was trying to get into, whether you are on the inside or the outside, you were trying to get into that department. And the biggest thing I learned, I think from coming from a family automotive business to one of the best investment banking bond houses on the street, probably not probably in the world at that time was to create a thick skin, uh, coming from a family business. You, you develop a thick skin, but when you're there on the floor, you quickly had to embrace a lot of, let's just say not favorable words and, and, and running around and doing the strangest things for partners. I think I was, I think I was 25 years old, maybe 26. And, um, getting there early, I'd be the first guy on the floor.

I'd be the very, very last guy to leave. I pick, I had sleep deprivation for about three years. I probably get home at 12. I was up at four, took the train in. I was always there at five 30 and I wanted to, I wanted to earn my way because I knew just based on the guys that were on the floor, that it was always going to be an uphill battle. It was a lot of nepotism. A lot of guys that got in there were very fortunate that fathers were traders or the uncles were trade as well, whatever, whatever the situation was. So I had to, I had to really prove myself and, and, and be persistent. I think that's where, when you look in the dictionary and you see the word persistency, my face is right next to it. I'm the most persistent person I know.

And that's the driver, that's the driver that I tell this to everybody. If you go in whatever you're going to do, you going to do something, have a goal, be persistent, and don't give up. Don't let people get in your head negativity. Don't let their fear of fear create a negativity in your head because you'll what will happen is you will look back and you'll, you'll be angry that you didn't listen to your inner self. You need to have a self driver. And I live by that. I'm 65 years old. I live by that every single day never stopped.

JP Maroney:

Absolutely. I mean, it goes back to, you're talking about mindset, having that, right. Mental attitude and not letting other people infect or affect how you feel about the deals as well. Um, we're going to have more questions for you, but before we do, if you're watching or listening to this episode of the deal flow show, you can get access to our previous episodes, our archives, as well as subscribe and follow us for future episodes. By going to the deal flow, show.com, the deal flow, show.com, the Ron, we really appreciate you, uh, you giving us those advice and that those tips about being persistent and what it takes to really, really be successful in the business. Bring us now up to date. What do you see hot in the capital markets today? Well,

Laurent Ronald Gray:

I think, um, it's a very unique time, you know, not withstanding the virus and what we are seeing for PSI is we are, we are essentially pure investment bankers, generalists, and all sectors with the exception of restaurants and cannabis, uh, restaurant. I have no idea how to, you know, invest in a restaurant. We go to restaurants and cannabis only because we don't understand the federal laws and how they may impact the overlay of state by state. So we for now we have stayed away from that. We're seeing a lot of the stress that, um, you can imagine what's been happening for the last six to seven months, that companies are struggling. Their balance sheet is struggling. So we're, we're doing a lot of hand re and enhancement value, either helping them restructure that debt and adding some additional equity to make their balance sheet stronger.

Um, we typically our turnaround, um, in, in, in the matter that trying to help companies that in March or late February, they were on a path to go through their goals where they were, they were acquiring other companies or putting on human capital, and then that tremendous bump in the road. And it was, it became a very slow drip, essentially that people were starting to back away from either ordering or, um, people couldn't get any further equipment for their, for their operations, their manufacturing. It was just a series of things. So from that perspective, it's that, um, we, we actually was, interestingly enough, we threw another business and another partner, we do a real estate financing. We just were one of the first guys in New York city to get a $47 million construction loan for a Hilton hotel down on 38th street. I think it's the first, probably three to four months that anybody has ever put that together.

So we're very proud of that. But hotels in itself are taking a serious bump. And I tell people all the time, you know, if you have, or you have a group that has the capital to make an acquisition in the hotel sector, they're trading 50 to 60% below market. And if you have the capital to what stand and hold until this curve comes back, whether it's one year or two years or three years, your trade is going to be very, very exciting trade at the end of the day. So those are, those are just a couple of things, you know, there is, there's a multiple of things that are out there that we are, we are seeing we're active in, but those are, those are a couple of

JP Maroney:

What is your deal process? I mean, when you are preparing to go to the table, looking at a new project, a new opportunity, can you walk us through the mindset and maybe some of the thought process?

Laurent Ronald Gray:

Yeah. It's, uh, it's, it's pretty much the same thing. Every time an opportunity comes to us, we have, uh, we have 14 partners. We'll have a conversation about the opportunity where it came from the viability of that sauce. You know, how close they are to the deal. We'll internalize. It, we'll take a read. And then one of my partners, who's my longest partner been with me over 20 years. He'll start to do the due diligence on the company to see what, see what the numbers look like, see how either, how good they are, how bad they are. And then we, we really spend a lot of time and having conversations with the management, from my perspective, I always look at managing expectations. I want to know how I can manage them and the process. And I want them to understand how they can manage the expectations to me and the company. And basically it's, it's, it's those beginning points that create the start of the beginning of a deal process. Obviously

JP Maroney:

Not every deal works out, right? Um, you have the ones that, whether they fall apart for the wrong, you know, for the wrong people or the wrong, the numbers don't make sense, et cetera. What are the deal breakers for you when you're looking at something? And you're like, other than it's cannabis, or it's a restaurant, what are the non-starters for you as you, if you see those red flags start to pop up,

Laurent Ronald Gray:

Well, it's, it's always management, right? If you, if you can't in those conversations, we may spend a month, sometimes two months. Um, perfect example, I've been dealing with this one group for about six months, trying to get this deal, trying to get this deal, moving it's in the animation space. And we happen to really, really like it, but that's, it becomes another story, maybe another time. Uh, but it it's, it's about the management. You have to understand the mindset of what you're dealing with on the other side of the table. Now, having said that in the past, we go meet the client. So the only basis you now have is a zoom call trying to get a body language and an understanding of what is going on, right? And you, and you have, you have as many conversations as you can to get a good feel of the management.

The CEO, the chairman is managers around him and it's, it's got to feel right. They have to understand our process. We have to understand their desires. If we feel, if we feel that their expectations are way beyond the pale, and we cannot manage that expectation, we will take a pass no matter how good the opportunity will be, because it's one of those things you're never going to make them happy. And if you go in knowing that it's just got it, it will be tortured. I think that's, that's, that's a very basic level. When, when management, when the bear management and our team there's harmony, it's a good conversation. Flow. Their deal makes sense. You do the due diligence on the bodies, on the principles. There is nothing, nothing works out that that's strange where you're going to sprint away. And then, then you're good to go. But yeah, I would say that for the most part, you have to be able to get along with the principals on the other side, same thing with us, you'll be in bed with them in some cases for a year and it's day in and day out. You're dealing with them in some form or fashion every day, sometimes seven days.

JP Maroney:

You mentioned before that, um, uh, Versailles Saint Germain, you guys are a more traditional investment banking firm. What's your take on, on regulation? A

Laurent Ronald Gray:

Why don't you should mention that. Um, um, I'm actually glad you mentioned that I was hired to do a reggae deal, um, by a guy that I have known for 15 years just happened to call him out of the blue. He was in bed with this firm. I'm not going to mention any names for liability purposes. I didn't agree with that structure at all. I felt that what, well, first, when he told me what they were doing, I did my research. I came back to him and I said, you know, this is not for me. I'm not comfortable with it. And, um, if you want me to do a traditional raise for you while you're doing the reggae, I will, I'll go parallel paths. You do that. I'll do this. And, um, hopefully it should work. The, the long and short of it is that it didn't work.

Laurent Ronald Gray: 

I got fired from the assignment, um, because the guy who is running the reggae was just a control freak, and he wants to all that activity flow going to him. Meanwhile, we brought, um, a considerable amount of opportunities for investment as a straight investment banking opportunity. And it's not the first time that I got fired. You know, it's a badge of honor, right. Talk to get fired. So when you get fired and you wear it and it's, it's fine, but the fast forward to this whole thing is that they're struggling. I know they're probably kicking themselves in the head of, of the why, why did we do that? And they're not any better off than they were, and they didn't let the process on the banking, go go far enough down the road in order for it to pay off. And I think it would have, I just think it would have, it would have work. I am very, very negative on reggae. I'm sorry to say that.

JP Maroney:

Well, so here's, it's interesting to hear you say that, and I didn't know what your feelings were on that, but there's a lot that's been going on, obviously with the deal flow show with season one, which we're filming, we'll have somewhere around, I want to say 34 episodes. I could be wrong, but I'd say 10 plus we've had this conversation come up about reggae, almost all cases, very positive, glowing. And this comes from everybody from the legal side, the teams to issuers who are raising founders, issuers that are raising the money to capital raisers and people who run reggae, FinTech platforms and things like that. It's nice to hear another perspective. And what's interesting is that reg a, which I, I have my own opinion about it. We talk about that at some point, but reggae has democratized in many ways, the capital raising process, not, not a rock throwing at you or the industry, but it's taken some of the teeth off of the good old boys investment, traditional investment bankers, and thrown it over to another side.

The other thing is that it's obviously opened up investment, raise raising or capital raising to mom and pop, not just a mom and pop accredited investors, or, but literally grandma can get out her checkbook and write a check. And I just read an article about a real estate fund to two rounds of a fund, two different funds, but by the same sponsor, both run on reggae. One of the investors came in at the minimum $5,000 on, on two different funds turn right around and filed a class action lawsuit. I'm alleging several things among which was self-dealing and misrepresentation, et cetera, which we know is being driven by an attorney. And I'm not signing on either one, but it does open up an entirely new set of problems. So it, it, while it opens up this massive capital resource out there, that's been virtually untapped by anyone outside of the public markets.

It also, I think, is creating its own set of problems. We're intending here at the deal flow show team and our team here at Harbor city capital to do a special episode or round table on reg a and if you're game and don't mind being maybe the one negative guy at the table, and we might consider having you come back in and present your side of the case. I think that would be very interesting to talk about the controversial components of reggae and where it works, where it doesn't, what the challenges are. I just read. One of my colleagues was posting. I think it was in a LinkedIn group was saying that the sec has literally organized a specific task force to look into reggae and the issues regarding what's going on within reggae. So they're, they're definitely being examined under a microscope. We saw it happen with the ICO, the tokenized offerings a couple of three years ago. Now I think we're going to see it with reg A's. My suspicion is the next one will be SPACs. So whatever the sexy thing of the weekends, that's the next target for, for the three letter agencies.

Laurent Ronald Gray:

Yeah. You know, it's funny that you say that. Um, so let's for a second, just talk about, talk about it a little bit further. You, you have the companies that are doing the formation of the right guy. They're there, the organizer, whatever you have, the, you have the law firms that are doing it, the accounting firms and the company looking for the money. So, you know, so you, you have that, that group, whatever the group is. And it just, it just appeared to me. And I, of course, this is a single focus, only one example. I only did one. Um, and I'm not back, I'm not backpedaling cause I'm still a nonbeliever, right. But it seems to be so many people that are in the pie that has to get paid by the, by the principal. Who's looking to access this reggae money. So, you know, $25,000 to the, to the company that is setting the process, then he's got to pay the legal and you have to have a marketing company.

And it just seems to be a lot, just a lot of, a lot of, a lot to even to break. Even you probably down 500,000 on this one particular deal. I think it was seven 50 that he was down and he was struggling. It was getting, as you were going to his investors to plug the holes, right. At the same time being fair, I have heard of a real estate firm, um, that raised 500 million on reggae. So go figure, you know, so if, if maybe if they're done right, it's like everything else. If, if you have the right people in the process from a to Z and no one is being really, maybe, maybe it happens, but I'm, I'm happy to jump in and articulate my feelings, um, and concerns, you know, it's the mom and pop that are jumping in looking to access some appreciation on their, on their dollars. Right. You know, when to do, when do those dollars paid or pay off and how are they protected? And that's, that's my, that's my issue.

JP Maroney:

I want to talk a little bit about the appetite for public markets, the traditional IPOs in a moment. But if you're watching or listening to this episode of the deal flow show, you can get access to our archives or previous episodes as well as subscribe and follow us for future episodes. By going to the deal flow, show.com the deal flow show.com. So Lauren Gray, we've got you on the show today, investment banker, I'm going to call you old school investment banker, right? So you sit in your lane, you know exactly what your lane is and to that, he might, he might be more interested in, in Ray gay, the music genre.

Laurent Ronald Gray:

Would you stop it?

JP Maroney:

So, so, so here's the, um, uh, here's, here's the question we've seen, um, pretty healthy IPO, uh, obviously covert affected some things, but going into it. And now, now coming out of it, some pretty interesting things happening. Where do you see the landscape over the next 12 to 24 months in the IPO market?

Laurent Ronald Gray:

Yeah, that's funny. Um, we do not do anything in the public market at all. Uh, we have, we have stayed away from that. I have stayed away from that my entire life. Uh, even, even when we did Spanish broadcasting, that that was teed off a long time ago. And I had, we had nothing, my company had nothing to do with it. We just had the benefit of having the warrants that, that came back to us, which is great. Um, I am, you know, I, I talk to my clients all the time. You know, when they say you think we should go public, do you think this, you think that I was representing, I'm now representing the same company. They told me they will go into, back into a shell. And I've heard, you know, over 30 years, nightmare stories about shells and how they work and how they don't work.

And you hear more stuff, you hear more stories about how they didn't work. And this guy happened to be one of my closest friends. And I said, you know, John, I think it's a bad idea. I don't know why you're doing it. Um, there's gotta be a better way to access capital. So they did it now, four years later, we, we for PSI are back engaging with them. You know, we, they, we have taken them out of the shell. We've taken them private. And now we're going to have a more traditional family office successful round series day that that gets them, gets them to where they should have been from 2015. So long-winded, um, we don't play in that space. You know, when you go public, you, the underwriting, the due diligence, all the investigations is a nightmare. Plus it's expensive and it's expensive to stay public. Now it's for a lot of people it's just not for, it's not for our practice. We're more comfortable in the, in the private private sector. Enjoy it, love it, better, easier for us. And that's where we, that's sort of where we serve. A lot of companies

JP Maroney:

Go public, um, for the exit strategy.

Laurent Ronald Gray:

So what, what, what do you guys do at your firm? Uh, we will put them in a position for a, a sell a merger, an acquisition, um, the, the benefits, the benefits for that, or most of our tier one, they'll get, they'll get their money when you sell the company. If it's a, if it's a hundred percent sale, you close, you have all your capital. If it's a tail, you you're staying in there for a number of years as a consultant, you'll get paid out. It's I think it's cleaner. It's for I, in my opinion, it's a cleaner way for companies to exit. Um, you just sell, you sell the company that falls into our M and a side of the business, and we're happy. We're happy. We love that side. We love consulting companies either on the buy side or the sell side, when you're

JP Maroney:

A founder or a team like that on toward an exit, through an acquisition, what, what are you saying to them? How are you preparing them to go to the deal table? What are the things you're telling them to look for, watch for be prepared

Laurent Ronald Gray:

Well in everything else, it starts with greed. If you, if you are too greedy, you will get beat up at the table. Always. Then the valuation course is always, you know, the first question is what's my valuation. What's my valuation. And my philosophy about valuations is you take a dart board, you draw a whole bunch of numbers on it, and you give anybody darts and let them throw it because we tell our clients all the time. It's not what, it's not what we think. And it's not what you think it's what the money is buying or investing their dollars into. But you, you, you want to, for the most part, you guide them into a, you know, a very successful close making sure that they understand that the dollars that are, that are being offered is fair. No one is going to overpay. Although things do get overpaid for, and if they're, if it's a clean deal, then it's just clean and, and they should be prepared for the due diligence process, which can take months to get to a closing table. If in fact that some of the management are staying behind, uh, as a, at what they call in or, and out then there are covenants in those contracts. And we're very anal making sure that the law firms or are really going through the covenants with a fine tooth comb, but that's pretty much that's, that's where it begins.

JP Maroney:

The hotel or hospitality industry, having severely under priced opportunities right now, what you feel like for the future, uh, an opportunity there to, to buy in, as long as you can sustain the operation over the gap, um, any other undervalued or maybe an unrealized opportunities that you're seeing out there in the market that people should be paying attention

Laurent Ronald Gray:

Real estate in general is taking a hit. I think the city is down like 30%, maybe 35%. When you have a downmarket or you have a, when you have a pandemic, right? This is, this is an oddity in the capital markets in the marketplace for everybody. There are a lot of people generating a lot of wealth off the pain and suffering of what's going on, right? But there are groups out there that are, that are buying. What was a good note, whether a developer is as an apartment complex and is now struggling to pay the banks, whether it be an investment thing. So banks, um, they're having issues. So there are, there are a lot of companies out there that are now buying the stretch notes. And so on the real estate sector, there's a tremendous buying opportunity, both in the hotel space, the commercial space, medical space and, uh, apartment space. Uh, student housing is interesting as well. There are a couple of companies out there that were, that we know of. We went up, participating in it, head or taking the opportunity to either build new housing or come in and take over the housing, the management side of it, and just have it kind of bell curve out,

JP Maroney:

Involved in facilitating any of those distressed note acquisition.

Laurent Ronald Gray:

We are not on my side, but my real estate partner that has a family office, they are not for any other reason. It's just, we're not seeing, we're not seeing for size, not seeing that they are seeing that they have primarily real estate, a real estate, opportunistic family office. They own five hotels, a multitude of different family, sorry, not family multifamily, uh, opportunities that they're in. So it's more their core. I just do real estate financing with him on opportunities, preferably hotels. Uh, I happen to love the hotel space very, very much. Who would you like to reach out to with regard to our audience or our, our guests? You know, I saw that in the questionnaire and I was like, that's, that's an interesting question. You know, it's, you know, we're always looking for opportunities, always going to be, uh, we're always looking for senior bankers that are looking to join our platform.

You know, we have a, we have a group out in San Diego, uh, Vermont, uh, five in Greenwich, Connecticut, two in Pennsylvania, I'm in, I'm in New York city. So I think we, we offer very interesting dynamics of our own deal flow, as well as the ability to execute the deal flow. We deal primarily with family offices, uh, for the most case, until they get up to around a hundred million and then it's private equity. And, and in some rare cases, it's hedge funds. Uh, we generally will not get an opportunity, you know, over 200 million, if they're coming to me, frankly, why are they coming to me? It wouldn't make any sense. That generally means that they've gone to everybody else. And everyone else said no. And somehow some way they made it here and we're saying no to. So it doesn't matter.

JP Maroney: 

What's the easiest way for someone to reach out to you. LinkedIn email, phone

Laurent Ronald Gray:

Email, it's a L R S gray, G R a Y double O seven. The James Bond reference and achieve mail.com.

JP Maroney: 

Lauren, we appreciate you being on the show, listen to our guests. If you're watching or listening to this episode of the deal flow show, and you think, Hey, I know a good guest, or Hey, maybe I'd be a good guest. Go to the deal flow show.com and you can apply to be a guest or suggest a guest to us. If you're watching, you're listening to the show, please share it. We have a lot of people in the capital markets, the investment space, um, all across the spectrum from service providers and on broker dealers, our IAS individuals that are really getting excited about the show. And if you know people like that, be sure to share it out to other people on behalf of myself, JP Maroney, my partner here in crime, mr. Paul Nicoline, Lauren, thank you so much for coming on the show and on the behalf of the deal flow show, team and Harbor city capital. We'll see you in another episode of the deal flow show very soon. Take care everybody. Bye bye. Thanks Lauren. For more episodes, visit the deal flow show.com and subscribe.

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